Courtesy in Cruelty and other 'rules'.

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Ralph
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Courtesy in Cruelty and other 'rules'.

Post by Ralph »

Last night I had occasion to use the Internet Wayback Machine to go back and look at some rules I wrote for a Vampire LARP way back in 1997. You can look at it here if you like: https://web.archive.org/web/20001015160 ... lebook.htm

Overall, it's not very good. In fact, I say now - it's bad. Both the balance and the prose had some major flaws with them. I like to think I've improved both as a game theorist and a writer since then.

However, there were a couple of gems in there that I think I'd like to consider bringing in some way into BAM. The first is "Courtesy in Cruelty."
Courtesy in Cruelty - When you are about to hose another persons character REALLY bad, or are about to seriously and permanently alter the status of that character (Final Death, Blood Bond, Conditioning) you are requested to remind him of anything he can do to get out of it that you can think of, including using Disciplines, Boons, Willpower, etc.

Your character may be cruel, but please be a nice player and help out.
This is actually a rule I have always used in all of my gaming life. In fact, it's so ingrained in me that I had been playing for years here at BAM before I realized it is NOT a stated rule in this game. I kind of think it should be.

All of the Codes of Conduct have a place in the BAM setting (though man do some of them need to be re-written,) but that one in particular I thought I should highlight.
Speaking Out of Character and The Story Of Romeo.

Imagine the following scene:
You are Primogen of your clan. You are steadfastly for the Camarilla and all it is for. Your best friend Mary has been by your side for a few years now. You trust her implicitly. When you return from Meetings of the primogen you occasionally need to let of steam and you share your thoughts and secrets with her. You trust her with your very unlife until...

Romeo, your best friend playing a sewer rat, chatters to you about the neat thing he discovered in game last game whilst at dinner. He mentions this chick names Mary. She is apparently some Sabbat Infiltrator! Mary is Sabbat? You stare at Romeo over your prime rib. A Flood of emotions floods your brain... you consider all of the secrets that you have shared with her and realize that you are the cause for all of the precision Sabbat raids lately and consider feeding this chattering player to her on a stake!

See what happened? This was a major plot for both you and Mary's player, Something that will seriously affect your player, and you found out at dinner, when you weren't even in Character!! It is completely natural to wish to share your discoveries with other players, but we ask that you refrain from this! The most insignificant details can be horribly destructive to the story we are trying to weave. You see it's not just a story in which we all "act" in, it is a reality that we create for our characters and experience through their eyes, ears and emotions. The best role-players don't need to try to feel their characters emotions or try to emulate them, they are their characters and any tampering with the delicate self-deceiving that we create shatters that reality. If you do insist on out of character chatter, whether it be dropping out of character while actually still in the game or talking about your characters knowledge with other players, be prepared for those players disappointment and fury. Also be prepared to be heavily chastised by Narrators and Storytellers alike.
We talk a lot about speaking out of character. I admit, that during downtime, I am as bad as the next guy about talking about the awesome scenes I was in, and certain plot points. I really should set a better example, and I apologize for that. In looking at this site last night, I was reminded about it with the Story of Romeo.

I will try to be better about it.

What do you think about these?
-Ralph
--------
Let me tell you a story....

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Aldona Piast
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Re: Courtesy in Cruelty and other 'rules'.

Post by Aldona Piast »

I said it last night in chat - but I'll say it here too.

I love both of these.

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Adele
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Re: Courtesy in Cruelty and other 'rules'.

Post by Adele »

I love the Courtesy in Cruelty writeup so much.


The Story of Romeo makes a very compelling point. I have certainly talked excitedly about my character's secrets in the past only to have them suddenly become public knowledge - I am thus far more reluctant to talk about said secrets anymore. Consciously or not, people will often bring their OOG knowledge into their game.

On the other hand, I come to this game to tell stories and hear stories, and often I absolutely love hearing what's going on in other peoples' games. Seeing other parts of the world and hearing how an event that affected my game one way did something completely different for other characters is a big part of the draw.

There's also room for positive metagaming in various scenarios - which is harder to accomplish if we're not talking post-game.

The current writeup of the followup to the story seems to imply that we shouldn't talk about events at game at all unless we're in-character, and I'm not sure I agree with that one. Keeping secrets secret is important, yes, absolutely! Keeping game-changers from doing that until dropped in-game? I definitely agree with that part. Beyond that, I'm interested in seeing where line is for different people.

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Re: Courtesy in Cruelty and other 'rules'.

Post by Melissa »

I love both of these.

To respond to Justin's point, a lot of what I do is pick who I talk to about secrets, and in general, don't tell people things that I'm not okay with being suddenly public knowledge. I theoretically shouldn't have to do either, but I understand humans are fallible and "remembering conversations correctly and in context" has been proven to be REALLY difficult. Our recollections of where we heard something can be wildly inaccurate and feel completely true. Pretending we have perfect recall and compartmentalization is never going to work, so we come up with coping methods.

Another way to manage the secrets thing is to ask first. "I know something big, I want to talk about it with you OOC, but I understand spoilers and will respect that". It gives a person a chance to opt-out from learning about it, and if they do learn about it, the act of asking creates a memory frame that helps remind them the information is OOC.

It's also totally viable to just absolutely keep IC information secret and try not to listen OOC to other people talking about IC secrets! Everyone has different ways of handling it.

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Re: Courtesy in Cruelty and other 'rules'.

Post by Aldona Piast »

The story of Romeo for me didn't imply that we shouldn't talk out of game at all - only that we should be more mindful of what we talk about. Telling somone oog that another character is a Sabbat infiltrator is PRETTY F*ING BIG. And since it wasn't his own character, pretty much wasn't his secret to talk about anyway. And gee - most of you know pretty well how I feel about talking about other people's secrets. ;)

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Re: Courtesy in Cruelty and other 'rules'.

Post by MikeLG »

As I see it, the "be careful when you give out info on the OOC level" can be viewed by my experience in game:

So, when Grue was alive, one of the things that I did enjoy sharing was the fact that all that he accomplished, he did so as a caitiff. I didn't share it with everyone, because I knew that if I did, that some people would contrive an excuse to find out, which is obviously less fun than if they picked up the little details in uptime (and man, there were some very close calls in some areas, and getting revealed in others). Plus, I have noticed in a previous player or two, when they find out something out of character, suddenly there's a shift in their IC behavior around a PC in an attempt to provoke that information coming out, or to just provoke a predicted reaction. Does everyone do it? No. But it does happen from time to time.

As for other bits of sharing information comes with the setup for when he died? Andrea and I kept our mouths shut. Literally the only people in game who knew it was coming, in or out of character, was me, Andrea, and staff and we kept a lid on it specifically for the dramatic reveal. When the scene went down, I remember seeing the look of shock on player's faces, we even got a "What did you guys do??" from it.

As for the info sharing, I suppose the best rule I suggest is be mindful of your audience.

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Re: Courtesy in Cruelty and other 'rules'.

Post by StephenAdler »

I love both of these.

Like others I love to hear the stories, and thankfully have the mind to compartmentalize the information and who received it (Anthony or Stephen/Issaiah/Arminius/Ashford/so many others); however I have seen information shared or known OOG drastically change how people react or play around those characters.

My defense when sharing is talking to specific individuals that I know can be trusted not only from spreading the secret, but also that can continue to play their characters without influence from the secret.

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