Artisan vs Masterwork vs 'Good'

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Ralph
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Artisan vs Masterwork vs 'Good'

Post by Ralph »

At our last staff meeting we as staff had a lively discussion about Masterwork vs Artisan, especially as regards to performances vs crafting.

I should start by saying that the system originally only allowed for Masterwork or Artisan features to exist on weapons and gear. Not on armor, and not on anything that wasn't tangible. In the original BNS system, it was not possible to create a Masterwork performance.

Because BAM had a history of wanting to objectively quantify how good something was on an artistic level, we decided to implement Artisan and Masterwork on intangible things, such as performances.

However, this reintroduced an old bias from the old system, and introduced a new problem - crafting bias. Let me explain.

In the old system, we would say that something was made with X craft - such as a Craft 5 painting. That meant that using the ro machine, the person got 5 successes on the crafting check to make that thing. (Usually only possible if they had 5 in the skill.) A Craft 5 Painting was objectively cooler than a Craft 4 Painting. We also had a line that if you made something crafts 6 or better, it was "obviously supernatural."

Now in the new system, we have normal, Artisan, and Masterwork. There is no longer a "clearly supernatural" line, except occasionally as part of the extra masterwork effect that occasionally comes up.

To get normal, you just need to succeed at making an item. To get Artisan, for almost everyone*, you need to get an exceptional success. This is important - to get an exceptional success, you must:
a) have a pool large enough that you would win the difficulty on a tie, and
b) you must outright win the first Ro.
You CANNOT get an exceptional success on a Willpower Retest.

To get Masterwork, you need the same qualifiers, and also must have a 5 in the skill you are using.

That means that at the very best*, only 1/3 of your work can possibly be Exceptional.

Ok, with all of that out of the way, I can now explain the crafting bias.

Because crafting (vs Performance) is only done in downtime, you can throw away the 2/3 items that don't come out as Exceptional. Thus you can create the illusion that everything you make is amazing.

Performers don't get this benefit. Every time they perform, they throw a chop. But since they have witnesses, they are unlikely to always get Exceptional performances. But that DOES NOT mean that they are not good! It just means that they are not Exceptional.

I am not sure that there is a solution to this problem - or even if it's a problem that needs to be solved. I think mostly I just wanted folks to know the following:

* Artisan and Masterwork pieces are Exceptional for a reason. They are not easy to make.
* Something can be good without being Exceptional.
* By nature of how they are created, Exceptional Performances are much more impressive (to me?) than Exceptional items.


* If you have a skill of 6 or more, you can get Artisan on a standard success. However most people can't get a skill of 6, so this is not taken into account for the purpose of this post.
-Ralph
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Ralph
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Re: Artisan vs Masterwork vs 'Good'

Post by Ralph »

One other thing I want to add, but I am making a separate post because it is tangentially related:

The Toreador Curse. Let me start by quoting the specific rules:
Clan Weakness: Toreador are often entranced by beauty and art. When you encounter a piece of art, a performance, or something beautiful that you are particularly interested in or that you have never seen before, you must give it your undivided attention for a scene. Toreador can resist this urge by expending a point of Willpower. Distractions, like loud voices or a nearby scuffle, can divert your attentions; although Toreador dislike being interrupted while experiencing art and beauty, and will respond with anger — even violence or frenzy.
• Artisan: This item is an exquisite, artistic example of its kind. This item’s beauty will trigger the clan weakness for members of the Toreador clan. Characters with a Crafts skill of 3 or higher who score an exceptional success while creating this item may add the Artisan quality; characters with a Crafts skill 6 or higher may add the Artisan quality without needing an exceptional success. Adding the Artisan quality in this manner does not consume a quality slot. A weapon with this quality sells for three times normal value.
• Masterwork: This is a magnificent, one-of-a-kind item. This item’s beauty will trigger the clan weakness for members of the Toreador clan. Characters with a Crafts skill of 5 or higher who score an exceptional success while creating this item may add the Masterwork quality to that item. Adding the Masterwork quality in this manner does not consume a quality slot. An item with this quality sells for five times normal value.
So with all of these combined, a Toreador will be affected by any art or beauty that appeals to them (regardless of quality), AND all items/performances with Artisan or Masterwork features regardless of their interest in that particular style of art. However, there are a few caveats that I think are important:

* A Toreador is only compelled into fascination the first time they encounter the stimulus. After that they MAY be fascinated, but are not compelled to be. It's an RP choice at that moment.
* Toreador who are fascinated are not compelled to LIKE the work. Indeed, they may be entranced by how much they HATE it.
* A Toreador is only compelled into fascination if they meaningfully observe or interact with an object.

Let me give a couple examples:
* If a Masterwork Painting is hung in a large room that a Toreador enters while chatting with her fellows, she won't be fascinated until she actually takes a moment to look around the room, spots the painting, and moves to get a closer look.
* If a Toreador is presented with a Masterwork weapon in a display case, she can close the case and not be fascinated, perhaps waiting until later to enjoy it.
* If a Toreador is in a Theater and a death metal band starts playing a song that actually is Masterwork, the Toreador (who hates modern rock music) can leave without being entranced, so long as they do so immediately.
* In that last example, the Toreador could become entranced, but begin a diatribe about how much they hate this sort of music (if it can even be called that.. it sounds more like a whole set of band instruments having unpleasant sexual relations with each other.)

(Reader note: I use entrance and fascinated interchangeably in this post - for this post they mean the same thing: succumb to the Toreador clan weakness)
-Ralph
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Re: Artisan vs Masterwork vs 'Good'

Post by MikeLG »

So, one little detail to bring up is perhaps something that's been effectively been dropped: Crafts levels of quality.

Let's say you do the performance, and due to attributes, equipment, and skills, you manage to do a performance with a total pool of 19. That's outright amazing . But it didn't become a masterwork and in the above example, they didn't have a skill at 6+, so it didn't become artisan. Expressing the pool at the very least would point out that while yeah, it's not artisan or masterwork, it is still done exceptionally well on a technical level. Expressing the number, sure is a bit focusing away from the work itself, but it does give a good detail of the skill involved, and that while it's not artisan or masterwork, it shouldn't be seen as humdrum or as good as anyone could have with a basic success.

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