(Well, I guess it’s kind of solicited now, or at least, not without context)
I know that breaking into LARPing can be hard for new or returning players, for inexperienced players, and sometimes for other folks, too. It's rough to feel on the margins, to feel ignored or frustrated with your engagement. I've been there! Sometimes I've lived there. And I've collected some advice that might be helpful if you're struggling, too.
Above all else, this: no one else is ultimately responsible for your fun at game. Everyone is under an onus to be fair and to collaborate, but the vast majority of your engagement and involvement is up to you. There are a lot of things you can do to proactively improve your experience at game, but it does require investment, and it does require work. The ideal is that we're all investing, and all working, and all getting fun out of our efforts; when that breaks down, it's something we should look at. I have some more specific advice if that's not happening for you, but I feel that this is a really helpful, even necessary, perspective to set forth from.
So now I'm soliciting: what about you? What's your advice for becoming more engaged and less frustrated, for getting more out of game? We have so many perspectives here and so many highly experienced gamers, and I'm sure that there's a lot to say on this subject, so please do! Tips specific to BAM or for LARPs more generally both welcome.
Some Unsolicited Gaming Advice
- LaCroix
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Some Unsolicited Gaming Advice
À qui il a été beaucoup donné, il sera beaucoup demandé.
- LaCroix
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- Player name: Ari
- Character Name: Odette La Croix
Re: Some Unsolicited Gaming Advice
There’s a follow-up to my above advice that I think is almost as valuable:
While it’s good to keep in mind that no one else is ultimately responsible for your fun, it can help a ton to approach the game as if you were responsible for—or at least eagerly contributing to—the fun that other people have. Try playing like an NPC! Spin plot out of your backstory and your downtimes and help give other people stuff to do. Hand out quests, incite interpersonal plot. Give other PCs an opportunity to show their skills and share themselves, and show the unique character of your own PC in your response. Coordinate meaningful story OOC with people. Be willing to share your spotlight, and to shine a light on others.
All of these things make you an appealing player, all of them tend to attract PCs to yours and grow your social cachet and opportunity in game. It can feel counter-intuitive when you’re already feeling on the margins, and it does represent investment, but it’s a powerful draw. Everybody wants something to do, everybody wants their PC to be noticed, and everybody wants game collaborators to make good stories. When you work to be that person consciously, it pays off.
(And while your mileage may vary, I find it *does* require conscious effort, and good communication both in and out of character. I’m super shy myself, and have a lot of experience walking into games chockfull of strangers; it can be hard. But it’s served me well so far, and I’m not even, I readily admit, always that great about it. I try, but it takes practice and reflection and investment.)
The payoff here is probably obvious, but to be clear:
When you work to give other PCs stuff to do, you end up with stuff to do yourself.
When you make your backstory—or your current story—engaging and involving, people learn more about your character in the terms that you prefer.
When you make other players/PCs feel listened to and important, they will tend to listen to you and to accord you/your PC relative importance.
While it’s good to keep in mind that no one else is ultimately responsible for your fun, it can help a ton to approach the game as if you were responsible for—or at least eagerly contributing to—the fun that other people have. Try playing like an NPC! Spin plot out of your backstory and your downtimes and help give other people stuff to do. Hand out quests, incite interpersonal plot. Give other PCs an opportunity to show their skills and share themselves, and show the unique character of your own PC in your response. Coordinate meaningful story OOC with people. Be willing to share your spotlight, and to shine a light on others.
All of these things make you an appealing player, all of them tend to attract PCs to yours and grow your social cachet and opportunity in game. It can feel counter-intuitive when you’re already feeling on the margins, and it does represent investment, but it’s a powerful draw. Everybody wants something to do, everybody wants their PC to be noticed, and everybody wants game collaborators to make good stories. When you work to be that person consciously, it pays off.
(And while your mileage may vary, I find it *does* require conscious effort, and good communication both in and out of character. I’m super shy myself, and have a lot of experience walking into games chockfull of strangers; it can be hard. But it’s served me well so far, and I’m not even, I readily admit, always that great about it. I try, but it takes practice and reflection and investment.)
The payoff here is probably obvious, but to be clear:
When you work to give other PCs stuff to do, you end up with stuff to do yourself.
When you make your backstory—or your current story—engaging and involving, people learn more about your character in the terms that you prefer.
When you make other players/PCs feel listened to and important, they will tend to listen to you and to accord you/your PC relative importance.
Last edited by LaCroix on Tue May 31, 2016 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
À qui il a été beaucoup donné, il sera beaucoup demandé.
- Melissa
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Re: Some Unsolicited Gaming Advice
I learned most of these via trial and error and NOT doing them and then wondering why things weren't going well. Big shout out to everyone who has given me advice and helped out over the years, and a disclaimer that I'm still working on a lot of these.
1. Communication. With staff, with other players. There is a strong cultural taboo where you don't bring up unpleasant topics to people directly, and it's extra strong in the gaming community. If an interaction with another character isn't fun, spend some time figuring out what isn't fun about it and communicate directly with the player about it. Or, if you and the player are not on speaking terms, communicate it to staff. "They are making the game unfun" may be true, but it isn't actionable. "They are making threats to my character OOC and now I'm afraid to follow hints and clues IC for fear of metagaming" is much more actionable and specific.
Because direct communication is a social taboo, we have to really actively encourage it. Huge shout-out to staff for working on publicizing and refining the complaints process. That goes both ways- I think we, as players, can be more open to letting our RP and our player etiquette get critiqued. RP is a skill that is learned, and a bit of constructive criticism and encouragement can go a long way.
In retrospect, I know I have made RP choices over my LARPING life that I wish someone had called me on and pointed out that they weren't fun for other people. So we have to monitor ourselves, but we'll miss things- our perspective is inherently narrow.
2. Character goals. This one took a while for me to learn. Define character goals both IC and OOC. OOC goals are often just "have fun!" but they can be more specific, too. I have a character in another game where my OOC goals are much more like those of an NPC, adding entertainment and atmosphere to the game.
IC, having hobbies, projects, goals, etc gets you involved with the game. Ideally, at least some of those goals should require other people to help. Having some sidequests to hand out to people, and getting some sidequests from people in return, is a great way to build character interaction, give you something to talk about, and keep your corner of the game dynamic.
3. Collaborate. Don't have a goal? Find one, grab someone, and start a collaboration. It can be an event, a night out, a murder, heck, if the collaboration is OOC, even a feud. This is a collaborative game, by nature. Sometimes it happens naturally, sometimes you have to kickstart it.
4. Conversation. Because I might as well embrace alliteration at this point. There is the aspect of being a good conversationalist. If RP starts flagging, turn it around into something about the other person's character. If you can't think about anything to talk about, ask them a meaningful question with a long answer, then ask follow up questions. It's the same techniques that make for good small talk at parties, though RP should learn towards the personal and political more than IRL small talk does.
Certain kinds of characters are better at this than others. Characters who are interested in others, either because they are curious or because they are self-interested and want good dirt, tend to be better for conversation.
Other ways of starting conversation: bring a sketchbook, journal, knitting, etc to game. Work on it during slow bits and chat about it with anyone who asks. Have your character develop an admiration for another character and seek to know more about them or attempt to have them as a mentor. Take a younger Kindred under your wing and act as their patron. Compliment someone's outfit.
Conversation skills might be its own post, actually...
P.S. Ari posted while I was typing this up, and we are apparently clones because we have very similar thoughts?![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
P.P.S. Alliteration was unintentional but after the third C I thought I'd run with it.
1. Communication. With staff, with other players. There is a strong cultural taboo where you don't bring up unpleasant topics to people directly, and it's extra strong in the gaming community. If an interaction with another character isn't fun, spend some time figuring out what isn't fun about it and communicate directly with the player about it. Or, if you and the player are not on speaking terms, communicate it to staff. "They are making the game unfun" may be true, but it isn't actionable. "They are making threats to my character OOC and now I'm afraid to follow hints and clues IC for fear of metagaming" is much more actionable and specific.
Because direct communication is a social taboo, we have to really actively encourage it. Huge shout-out to staff for working on publicizing and refining the complaints process. That goes both ways- I think we, as players, can be more open to letting our RP and our player etiquette get critiqued. RP is a skill that is learned, and a bit of constructive criticism and encouragement can go a long way.
In retrospect, I know I have made RP choices over my LARPING life that I wish someone had called me on and pointed out that they weren't fun for other people. So we have to monitor ourselves, but we'll miss things- our perspective is inherently narrow.
2. Character goals. This one took a while for me to learn. Define character goals both IC and OOC. OOC goals are often just "have fun!" but they can be more specific, too. I have a character in another game where my OOC goals are much more like those of an NPC, adding entertainment and atmosphere to the game.
IC, having hobbies, projects, goals, etc gets you involved with the game. Ideally, at least some of those goals should require other people to help. Having some sidequests to hand out to people, and getting some sidequests from people in return, is a great way to build character interaction, give you something to talk about, and keep your corner of the game dynamic.
3. Collaborate. Don't have a goal? Find one, grab someone, and start a collaboration. It can be an event, a night out, a murder, heck, if the collaboration is OOC, even a feud. This is a collaborative game, by nature. Sometimes it happens naturally, sometimes you have to kickstart it.
4. Conversation. Because I might as well embrace alliteration at this point. There is the aspect of being a good conversationalist. If RP starts flagging, turn it around into something about the other person's character. If you can't think about anything to talk about, ask them a meaningful question with a long answer, then ask follow up questions. It's the same techniques that make for good small talk at parties, though RP should learn towards the personal and political more than IRL small talk does.
Certain kinds of characters are better at this than others. Characters who are interested in others, either because they are curious or because they are self-interested and want good dirt, tend to be better for conversation.
Other ways of starting conversation: bring a sketchbook, journal, knitting, etc to game. Work on it during slow bits and chat about it with anyone who asks. Have your character develop an admiration for another character and seek to know more about them or attempt to have them as a mentor. Take a younger Kindred under your wing and act as their patron. Compliment someone's outfit.
Conversation skills might be its own post, actually...
P.S. Ari posted while I was typing this up, and we are apparently clones because we have very similar thoughts?
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
P.P.S. Alliteration was unintentional but after the third C I thought I'd run with it.
I'll burn that bridge when I get to it.
Re: Some Unsolicited Gaming Advice
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- Ted
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Re: Some Unsolicited Gaming Advice
Thoughts I have!
1. Listen to other peoples' stories and see how you can get involved or care about them. If you're bored, don't try to push your plots on other people; try to jump in on theirs. Everyone loves talking about their own characters. If you're not getting involved much, ask others ICly about their stories. They'll start getting more involved in yours.
2. Build reasons into your character. Come in with things you already want to do that will make your character ICly have reasons to interact. Build on what people do instead of trying to cancel it and make nothing happen.
3. Know what kind of RP you do and don't like. Don't feel obligated to get involved in plots that don't interest you. If you hate combat, don't join the dragon-hunting party. If you don't like downtimes, don't do 'em!
4. Play a character who reacts and cares about other PCs. For better or worse, more interactions make the game more interesting for everyone.
1. Listen to other peoples' stories and see how you can get involved or care about them. If you're bored, don't try to push your plots on other people; try to jump in on theirs. Everyone loves talking about their own characters. If you're not getting involved much, ask others ICly about their stories. They'll start getting more involved in yours.
2. Build reasons into your character. Come in with things you already want to do that will make your character ICly have reasons to interact. Build on what people do instead of trying to cancel it and make nothing happen.
3. Know what kind of RP you do and don't like. Don't feel obligated to get involved in plots that don't interest you. If you hate combat, don't join the dragon-hunting party. If you don't like downtimes, don't do 'em!
4. Play a character who reacts and cares about other PCs. For better or worse, more interactions make the game more interesting for everyone.
Qerans Seadie (3BR). Creature - Zombie Shaman. 1BBB, T, Sacrifice a player: Put a +1/+1 counter on one of that land is trandor.
- Bela
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Re: Some Unsolicited Gaming Advice
This, I think, can not be emphasized enough. Much of my gaming experience is from tabletop rather than LARP and this advice applies to both. Gaming is inherently a social activity. And while lone wolf characters make for good characters in stories that are not interactive (you know, movies, comics, plays, tv, books, etc) they are really rough to play in a game that is inherently social. You don't need make a character that plans or wants to be super political or even be social primary. But I find that characters that at least care enough to interact with the other PCs are the ones that folks ultimately seem to enjoy playing the most.Ted wrote:4. Play a character who reacts and cares about other PCs. For better or worse, more interactions make the game more interesting for everyone.
Maria Isabela Peixoto do Espirito Santo Costa Mão de Ferro Wright (Bela)
"So it's true, when all is said and done, grief is the price we pay for love." -- E. A. Bucchianeri
"So it's true, when all is said and done, grief is the price we pay for love." -- E. A. Bucchianeri
- LaCroix
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Re: Some Unsolicited Gaming Advice
I very much agree with the above!
I think it's also valuable to remember that not every character will work for every game. Getting a feel for the the dynamic before introducing a character, through NPCing or shadowing, can help, and sometimes a square peg character can be hammered into shape with help from Staff and fellow players, but sometimes it takes a few tries to land on a good concept. I know that some of my most frustrating experiences in gaming have involved getting really attached to character concepts that just weren't suited for the context of the game in question for whatever reason, and not feeling willing or able to make significant changes or try out a different concept altogether.
I think it's also valuable to remember that not every character will work for every game. Getting a feel for the the dynamic before introducing a character, through NPCing or shadowing, can help, and sometimes a square peg character can be hammered into shape with help from Staff and fellow players, but sometimes it takes a few tries to land on a good concept. I know that some of my most frustrating experiences in gaming have involved getting really attached to character concepts that just weren't suited for the context of the game in question for whatever reason, and not feeling willing or able to make significant changes or try out a different concept altogether.
À qui il a été beaucoup donné, il sera beaucoup demandé.
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Re: Some Unsolicited Gaming Advice
Thanks for putting these together! I think it'll be a great resource, especially for new players looking to get active in game quickly, and there are a lot of awesome tips so far. I hope people will add more.
I know this is at least in part a response to my recent thread, and I'm really happy that people are discussing this stuff. I do want to mention that there are number of ideas here that I hadn't yet tried (so yay!), and also some that I did try but didn't work so well (for various reasons) for me.
I am thinking of writing up something on responsible roleplay in game, my thoughts on how established players can also help ensure inclusiveness in a game like this, where social divisions are actually built into game (Toreador vs. Nos, Brujah vs. Ventrue, Statused vs unstatused, etc), and I hope that you'll all share your thoughts on it too. I promise it'll be a painless thread!
Anyway, thanks for these suggestions!
I know this is at least in part a response to my recent thread, and I'm really happy that people are discussing this stuff. I do want to mention that there are number of ideas here that I hadn't yet tried (so yay!), and also some that I did try but didn't work so well (for various reasons) for me.
I am thinking of writing up something on responsible roleplay in game, my thoughts on how established players can also help ensure inclusiveness in a game like this, where social divisions are actually built into game (Toreador vs. Nos, Brujah vs. Ventrue, Statused vs unstatused, etc), and I hope that you'll all share your thoughts on it too. I promise it'll be a painless thread!
Anyway, thanks for these suggestions!
- Leon
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Re: Some Unsolicited Gaming Advice
What I always suggest: "Build a person, then add numbers."
Don't focus too much on the numbers games. Yes, do some homework on your character if you don't know about the areas he's in, and if there's some gaps, don't sweat it too much, because last I checked, none of us are actually said characters. But most important of all, build a person. Heck, do all that before assigning clan (I often say that nearly any concept works any clan, to me, clan is a final step about what kind of RP you're going for)
Think of how the characters act and interact, the little quirks, how they talk, what they do. I like to throw in hobbies for each of my characters. Sometimes it's things I'm interested, sometimes it's not. But those quirks and interests make little hooks that are good to latch on to.
As a nice shorthand, I like to borrow from Unknown Armies and add in little fear, rage, and nobility stimulus. Nobody's brave all the time, everyone has an anger button, and everyone has a fear button. What would your character put on there and why?
In the end, imperfections make the person, which makes the character.
As a subset: When it comes to interacting, do your best to not differentiate between PC and NPC. Treat each equally when it comes to interaction. Some of the biggest character changes have come from both PC and NPC interactions and it really does pay to not treat the interaction as different.
Your stats you can always buy up and explain away. But it's much MUCH harder to explain away a sudden change in character for a character. I usually play the character in my head a bit before I put a pen down. Sometimes, if the personality clicks, that will dictate what you put down. Remember to never sweat it if you don't have the points.
Don't focus too much on the numbers games. Yes, do some homework on your character if you don't know about the areas he's in, and if there's some gaps, don't sweat it too much, because last I checked, none of us are actually said characters. But most important of all, build a person. Heck, do all that before assigning clan (I often say that nearly any concept works any clan, to me, clan is a final step about what kind of RP you're going for)
Think of how the characters act and interact, the little quirks, how they talk, what they do. I like to throw in hobbies for each of my characters. Sometimes it's things I'm interested, sometimes it's not. But those quirks and interests make little hooks that are good to latch on to.
As a nice shorthand, I like to borrow from Unknown Armies and add in little fear, rage, and nobility stimulus. Nobody's brave all the time, everyone has an anger button, and everyone has a fear button. What would your character put on there and why?
In the end, imperfections make the person, which makes the character.
As a subset: When it comes to interacting, do your best to not differentiate between PC and NPC. Treat each equally when it comes to interaction. Some of the biggest character changes have come from both PC and NPC interactions and it really does pay to not treat the interaction as different.
Your stats you can always buy up and explain away. But it's much MUCH harder to explain away a sudden change in character for a character. I usually play the character in my head a bit before I put a pen down. Sometimes, if the personality clicks, that will dictate what you put down. Remember to never sweat it if you don't have the points.