Character Sheets Online

[Ted]

Among Staff, we're talking about moving the characters online. If each player has a private forum, this could also be a spot where character sheets are kept.

We're talking about maybe moving the sheets online, and having the sheets in your private forum be the authoritative version.

As I see it, this has many advantages. Staff can see your stats so you won't need to send them in as much. If you lose your sheet it's easy to make a new one.

On the other hand, there are a few things to consider:
- Right now, we award XP in person, so that we can check who attends and award eeps to other players in gamedown. If we moved online, we could do that online, or we could keep doing it in person, and just have Staff take notes and update XP on the online sheet each week.
- Some players aren't online very often. They would need to be able to spend XP in person. We could either keep XP in person and update each week (which would be a huge administrative burden), or do most XP spends online and just allow in-person exceptions for people who can't or don't want to spend online.
- Right now, we have an online character sheet system, but only a few people use it and it's not checked or used very often. There are some technical problems with this system as well.

We'd like to hear your thoughts on this. Hence the poll.

[Aldona Piast]

I like that you have to be at game to do xp spends - I think it encourages attendance and timeliness - both of which add to the rp environment.

I also like that you can only do xp spends on your active character - I don't like the idea of xp spends happening on a character that isn't getting played actively.

I am concerned that going to an online xp spend format would negate these things.

[Ted]

Excellent points, Lindsay! Thanks!

[Marcella]

I like that you have to be at game to do xp spends - I think it encourages attendance and timeliness - both of which add to the rp environment.

I also like that you can only do xp spends on your active character - I don't like the idea of xp spends happening on a character that isn't getting played actively.

I am concerned that going to an online xp spend format would negate these things.

Seconded on all points

[MikeLG]

So, please, correct me if I'm reading this wrong. But I got an implication that comes off that it seems like you're considering just dropping the paper sheets.

I'm against this, largely due to the assumption it makes that everyone has a smart phone. I don't, and I find it more of a hassle to have to bring out my ipod, log in, have to get to a spot where I can connect to the net, then check things. Additionally, there have been a number of times that the entire site has been down, often for an entire weekend, which means that even being able to consult your sheet would be impossible. The current implementation for online character sheets has been such a hassle that I am not really for the idea.

Thirding Lindsay's points. Also, if xp awards are done online, how would that happen?

[Ted]

So, please, correct me if I'm reading this wrong. But I got an implication that comes off that it seems like you're considering just dropping the paper sheets.

Oh! No, I agree, getting rid of paper sheets would be a terrible idea. I'm talking about having the character sheets online, and having that be the authoritative source (that is, making sure it's kept up to date.)

Thirding Lindsay's points. Also, if xp awards are done online, how would that happen?

What we're thinking about is this:

- Have a sheet of paper where we give everyone XP at game for showing up at check-in.
- At gamedown, using that same sheet to record XP awards.
- Copy that sheet on to the forums afterward to update XP totals.
- People spend XP by sending in a PM to Staff. (Some players do this already.)
- If someone can't get access to the boards, they can spend in person and we'll write it down and copy it onto the forums. But that would be the exception rather than the rule.

[MikeLG]

Alright. In that case, for similar reasons, I much much much prefer to do the spends in person. It allows little things such as "Oh hey, you have x many neeps" and some form of discussion and thought in it. I actually prefer the xp spends in downtime to be the exception, rather than rule.

[Jane]

If staff wants a copy of my sheet online for downtime purposes, that's fine, but when I am at game I want a hard copy in my hand. I don't have a smartphone and I'm not going to hunt down someone who does every time I want to know what my stats are. I also need a hard copy because electronic sheets have limitations and are subject to software bugs, data corruption, etc. I've tried using the electronic sheets that are currently on the site and had a lot of trouble getting it to work right, was told not to use it until the bugs were fixed, and finally gave up on it because I never heard whether or not they worked right.

As far as eeps go, I think they should definitely be done in person whenever possible. Sharing stories and letting other players know how they impact your game is how we build friendships and a sense of community. Moving that process online would mean that some of those stories don't get shared, some of that camaraderie doesn't get established, and some players just don't access the boards that often.

Also, one of the poll options is to implement these changes when the rules change. I was under the impression that the new rules are being tested and our current rules might change. Is this a mistake in wording? Because to me it sounds like certain changes are going to be implemented regardless of what the players think and that the results of the polls and comments in these threads won't actually matter.

[Ted]

If staff wants a copy of my sheet online for downtime purposes, that's fine, but when I am at game I want a hard copy in my hand.

I agree with you completely. I don't think anyone is talking about getting rid of paper sheets.

As far as eeps go, I think they should definitely be done in person whenever possible. Sharing stories and letting other players know how they impact your game is how we build friendships and a sense of community.

Are you talking about XP awards (the thing we do at the end of game), or spending XP (the thing everyone waits in line for at the beginning of game)?

Also, one of the poll options is to implement these changes when the rules change. I was under the impression that the new rules are being tested and our current rules might change. Is this a mistake in wording?

This is a mistake in wording, and I've updated the wording accordingly.

[Ralph]

Couple of things:

1) The proposed idea would not replace the sheets at all. You would still have a book, we would still register XP at the beginning of game, and still do shout-outs at the end of game. The main difference is you will see your available XP on the forum, and we will have an authoritative record of all changes there.

2) Right now check-in takes about 90 minutes. We start at 7, and often are not done before listenup, which means that there is another 20 minutes of checkin AFTER listenup. Ginger rarely gets into game before 8:30. With this proposal, most XP spends would happen during the week, and checkin would be as simple as checking your name off a list and doing any hunting pulls.

3) To respond to Drea(Prime)'s point - To be very clear, we are looking seriously at doing a system change, but as I've said before, we will be doing so only with a majority buy-in from the community. This topic is only tangentially related to that idea.

[Ted]

Added another poll for this: http://masquerade.endogaming.net/forum/ ... 29&t=19672

[msweet]

I will be a voice of very mild and largely un-poll-related dissent here:

I have no problem whatsoever with the idea of people being able to do XP spends on characters not currently in play. I'm not sure what the advantage to that would be over just spending a bunch of XP the night you bring the character back, given the way we do things, but I also don't see the disadvantage (perhaps this is just a matter of taste? or I'm just being really thick?).

The only situation in which I can imagine incremental stat changes vs change glut mattering is if we were to permit downtime actions from characters not in active play, which we don't (though I think that we ought to--that is, however, beyond the scope of this poll and thread).

I would like to have more discussion of how XP spends would work online. I'm picturing interaction with Staff, through PMs or on personal forums, which would allow for the kind of discussion that Adam is talking about and seems like it would make confining expenditures to active characters reasonably easy. Is that an accurate picture, or are we being offered something more like an automated process? I think I'd be against the idea of an automated process for most of the reasons mentioned previously in this thread.

[Eli Mitchell]

What we're thinking about is this:

- Have a sheet of paper where we give everyone XP at game for showing up at check-in.
- At gamedown, using that same sheet to record XP awards.
- Copy that sheet on to the forums afterward to update XP totals.
- People spend XP by sending in a PM to Staff. (Some players do this already.)
- If someone can't get access to the boards, they can spend in person and we'll write it down and copy it onto the forums. But that would be the exception rather than the rule.

I like this plan.

If this goes automated, I have no issue with folks using XP on any active character they want to, I am of the XP is owned by the player until spent" philosophy and these seems to me to be an extension of this.

Also, anything that makes it easier for staff = good in my book.

[Ralph]

To respond to Ari's post:

* Currently we do allow people to do downtimes with either of thier characters on any given week, with Staff approval. You can play one and do DT's with the other. It doesn't happen often, but it does occasionally come up.

* I forsee the way the XP spends working (in this proposal) as being sort of like this:

* First of all, your sheet will be a stickied topic at the top of your private thread.
* In that same topic, as subposts will be a record of all xp transactions. (1/24/14 - +1 xp attend, +1 xp nom. Total now 12.)
* You request purchases either as part of your downtime PM, or in the same thread. (I'd like to buy Potence 2 please!)
* We log that in the same thread and update the sheet at the top of the post. (1/24/14 - 3xp spent on Might. Total now 9.)

Discussion over PM is totally legit. The one thing that would be a little complicated is working out NEEPs. (Of course, IF we go to the BNS system NEEPs go away.)

Of course in all cases there is still the possibility for spending at game for those folks who just never get online.

I hope this helps clairify.

[msweet]

Thank you for clarifying! That is pretty much what I was picturing an hoping for.

Also, this is super exciting:

* Currently we do allow people to do downtimes with either of thier characters on any given week, with Staff approval. You can play one and do DT's with the other. It doesn't happen often, but it does occasionally come up.

I obviously had no idea, but I sure am doing the happy dance now. Thanks!

[administrator]

I've been meaning to get in and start rewrtiing the character sheet system for some time now... this may happen in the near future - hopefully getting rid of the technical issues that staff has experienced with that system.

(and sorry for the bugs!)